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The Birth of Siddhartha.

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  • The Birth of Siddhartha.

    Hi everyone, May I have your opinion on the following. Thanks. Bradley

    Is Buddhism the ‘Word of Siddhartha’?

    The birth of ‘Siddhartha’.

    The birth of Siddhartha
    Ended the reign of religions, gods, monks and holy men
    Man, until now a mere pawn of these powers
    Was to know, he is the master of his own destiny
    He alone is the creator of his own world
    Therefore, he alone must seek his salvation
    Suddenly for us, there is no present, no past, no future
    For space and time is nonexistent in ‘Dhamma’
    No birth and therefore no death
    Life is but a process, no beginning, no end
    Until of course, we see emptiness in the Emptiness
    The ‘Dependent Origination’ where there is nothing to be defined
    The end of all formations, no more birth.
    Seen, is the creator of the elusive ‘I’.

    “The ‘Dhamma’ is way beyond those who are stuck in religious mentality”

  • #2
    Sounds a bit like the Mahayana heart-sutta... "....There is no old age and death,
    and no end to old age and death.
    There is no suffering, no cause of suffering,
    no end to suffering, no path to follow.
    There is no attainment of wisdom,
    and no wisdom to attain....."
    I think, this can only be directly understood and realized through meditation... and meditation only comes to fruit if one follows the 8-fold path... There is no way out. Weather one calls it "Eight Fold Path", or "Ten Commandments" or "middle way" or anything else. There is no fruition of meditation without a virtuous, skillful live.
    Once you crossed the river you don't need the boat anymore. But FIRST there is.. at least for anyone else apart from a non-returner... a river to cross.

    _()_ Gassho


    • #3
      Birth of Siddhartha.

      Hi Ruth,
      Thanks for your contribution. According to my understanding, your thought process is your Dhamma. Hence it is unique and you alone can seek it and obviously, no one can discourse it to you. The more you run after others and their sacred books and Suttas to seek your Dhamma the more you tend to move further and further away from it. “Listen to yourself your thought process every moment to seek your Dhamma to neutralize It”, said, Siddhartha.
      “My way is not your way, seek your own” - Siddhartha.
      Best regards. - Bradley


      • #4
        That is ok with me... seeking my own way I found truth in this advice about meditation and a virtuous live...
        I actually found the truth in this advice before I was even interested in Buddhism and I was happy, to read something that was echoing my experience.. and even went further.

        "Better it is to live
        one day virtuous and meditative
        than to live a hundred years
        immoral and uncontrolled."
        Dhammapada 8.110
        "To avoid all evil,
        to cultivate good,
        and to purify one's mind --
        this is the teaching of the Buddhas."
        Dhammapada 14.183

        I also think, that we share an awful lot of our thought processes with other humans.. especially the ones of our cultural or familial background. Yes, a lot is unique... but a lot is - in my humble opinion - anything but ;-).
        Kind regards, Ruth


        • #5
          I just had a quote from Huang Po in my mail-box and it fits nicely here. It is translated from Chinese to German... ("the spirit of zen":
          and now I translate it to English as good as I can:
          "The ignorant abstains from phenomena, but not from thoughts. The wise abstains from thoughts, but not from phenomena."
          I am aware, that a "thought process" (that you seem to equal with Dhamma if I understand you right,) is not to mix up with its result, a thought. Still: if the wise abstains from thoughts, what does that tell us about the thought process? ....
          I don't agree with that statement that, my thought process is "my" Dhamma. There is nothing like "my" Dhamma in my understanding. Dhamma is - as I see it - not "possessable" by a "me". "Dhamma" might include thought processes as a phenomena, but - again in my opinion - is not to equalize with them as the word Dhammy includes more. In Buddhism the word seems to get used mostly either for Buddhas teachings or also for something like "all phenomena". So we seem to disagree at a very basic level there: the (many) definition(s) of the meaning of the word "Dhamma".


          • #6
            Hello Bradly,
            The following two quotes - where did you find them?

            “Listen to yourself your thought process every moment to seek your Dhamma to neutralize It”, said, Siddhartha.
            “My way is not your way, seek your own” - Siddhartha.


            • #7
              Hi Mahisha, I am sorry, the only way I could answer your question is by posing a counter question. Did you find quotes that say anything otherwise and where? To my understanding' each and every one of us is unique because of our Dhamma the source of our thought process is unique, beyond the comprehension of others. If not, we will all be the same seeking the same way. Rgds. Bradley


              • #8
                Bradly, I find it disturbing that you can say that the Buddha said something, but, can't find a source online when asked - such as suttacentral or accesstoinsight just to name two sources.
                IF I were to attribute something to the Buddha, I always quote: we CAN *then* discuss if the sutta (that is quoted) is authentic or not - but over here, you write something specifically attributed to him, and when asked, you are unable to find where it is from!

                Counter question - to indulge in a bit of sophistry - if the Buddha didn't say it, how can I find it? )


                • #9
                  Hi Mahisha, Dhamma & Buddhism are worlds apart and have nothing in common. The former is Dependent Origination & the latter Cause & effect. I quote the Zen saying "By walking the way of others how can you seek your own' for your info. I don't think one needs to refer to so-called sacred books to understand this simple logic. I believe the following verse would shed some light.

                  Looking for the ‘Way’

                  Looking for the ‘Way’ to deliverance?
                  Siddhartha discovered his
                  It is time for you to discover yours
                  You cannot walk the ‘Way’ of others
                  Not even that of Siddhartha
                  Your ‘Way’ is within you and it is your very own.
                  No one can seek this ‘Way’
                  It is all yours to seek and to seek only you can
                  But all this while you never sought it
                  “It is somewhere else” you were told
                  You were blind to believe them
                  And here you are, still looking for your ‘Way’
                  Running after so-called ‘holy men’ and their ‘sacred’ books
                  Unaware, they don’t even know their own Way, leave alone yours
                  As long as you have no faith in yourself
                  Sadly, this ‘Way to deliverance’ is way beyond you.

                  “Seek your Dhamma within not without”


                  • #10
                    This is where I've had issue with you from the beginning. Dependant origination and cause and effect are the same. Kamma is both. There's no difference mate! Please explain to me the difference. I will agree with you, however, that Dhamma and Buddhism are not the same. Buddhism is one vehicle by which we hope to point out dhamma. I also agree that holy books aren't necessary for all people, though it is abundantly clear to me that they are necessary to some people. Please shed some light on your view of the difference between d.o. and cause and effect. Perhaps I've missed something and am wrong.
                    Thank you sir!


                    • #11
                      Hi Jerrod, Good to hear from you. I don’t have much writing skills but I will do my best to answer your complex question.
                      Dependent Origination is the way of the world the Dhamma or nature. It is a highly complex process beyond space and time the creator of the human mind the world of duality. Whatever beyond space and time is beyond our comprehension and therefore beyond words. Hence, Siddhartha revealed the ‘Sathipatthana’ viz. the body, feeling and ‘Chitta’ are just Dhamma the Dependent Origination, an empty process dependent on condition, for us to experience its nature first hand. However, due to our ignorance, we cling to this process as ‘I’, creating our own world of duality.
                      However, Cause & Effect is the way the ignorant mind perceives the world whereas in reality there is neither a cause nor an effect can be found for all so-called things in the Universe have no existence on their own and are interconnected dependent on each other. So, in our ignorance, we do good to counter bad, make merits to counter sins unaware we cannot have one without the other. Unlike Dependent Origination a process which can be neutralized to go beyond, Cause and Effect which operates within space and time is the way of the dualistic world of religions including Buddhism, where there is no way out. Regards. Bradley


                      • #12
                        Bradly, you still failed to answer one question - where did you get the two quotes from?
                        Either you made it up, or, got it from somewhere - but for some reasons, unable to say where....Should be a relatively simple enough question to answer. But you post something else, and not answer the question.

                        Clearly, what you post has nothing to do with the Dhamma as in the Dhamma of the Buddha, Gotama.
                        BUT, you seem to shroud, cover, misrepresent what you say by using the word "Sidharatha" - where people (including I) may think it's referring to Gotama Buddha.
                        What I find disturbing is the misrepresentation. At least slowly, more light is being shed. You could just of course say it's Bradly'd Dhamma, or XX's Dhamma, but you chose to do otherwise!

                        “Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata.”

                        Hello Jerrod, good to hear from you!
                        As for me, it's YouTube / Audio, the Sutta's (not the Abhidamma), and generally hanging out with good monks. Even briefly hanging around them, has been helpful...
                        If one really could hang around monks, may not really need the Sutta as such - because the Sangha (Bhikku and Bhikuni's) are the living embodiment of the practice - going all the way back to the Buddha....
                        But for me, Sutta - reading on my own, and , and not surprise here - listening to the sutta class by monks and nuns from, Perth.... that's actually how I got interested in the Sutta in the first place.... I had thought them to be complicated etc so never attempted - but I find them very clear and direct, and useful...

                        Thank you, and hope someone steps up to the admin role....

                        Kindest wishes, Mahisha


                        • #13
                          Hi Bradley,

                          Thanks for your time in replying. I agree about the ignorance in duality, good vs. bad... I 'm going to take some time to consider the rest. My immediate response wants me to dismiss and disagree, but maybe I'm missing something. When speaking of cause and effect are you referring only to volitional kamma, or just all of existence in general (i.e. chemical reactions, weather patterns)? I am sincerely asking. Please know that I am not mocking you or trying to trip you up. I genuinely want to know your view. I have a theory that our views may be more similar than I thought, but use conventional terminology in different and sometimes opposing ways. I will elaborate more later and can perhaps get us on the same page as it were. Be well good sir.


                          • #14

                            Sounds like you have a clear path. I envy you for that. I hope it brings you peace. Be well.


                            • #15
                              Hello Jerrod, thank you - I guess I sort of do... and it's been only seven years, so, relatively young.

                              I was just thinking about "texts" in general - and I do come to Phoenix once a year and do go through the Bible kept in the drawer.... I suppose I do have a fondness for "old" texts?
                              And, Phoenix has a living, breathing, inspiring Christian tradition - which I am very fond of, and, like....

                              You may like the "Nibbana mind stilled" series, I did....
                              I was also asked to read the Law of Dependent arising - and just went through the first two.... it will take a while for me to go through the entire series - but I will....
                              This is a Thervada monk - living in Sri Lanka..... and all of this, is Pali Sutta based....


                              Thank you, for a lot of "things"......
                              Peaceeeee, Mahisha



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