The First Precept (Harmlessness/Not Killing)

[Rachel Green]

Thanks for all the comments Melissa, Simon and Ciprian,
One of the things I am interested in is noticing how much anger or hatred I my have in my mind in associated with killing, it surprises me how much animosity, for instance, I can have towards a small tiny mosquito. This is a different way of looking at the precept I think - it is a training in mindfulness as well as compassion, isn't that what it's about? If I do find myself for some obscure reason wanting to kill something I have been known to apologise first so at least my mind is less disturbed and I am not killing from hate, but as i write this I can see how ridiculous this sounds. What do you think?

[Rachel Green]

Well done Anne, A rating of 4 is wonderful ... to lessen even further you may need to tap on the various aspects individually e.g. the actual incident that made you first frightened, the feel of a hairy spider on you, the look of the legs from a distance ... whatever it is that freaks you out, the more comprehensively you tap on different aspects, as I understand it the more likely you are for the fear to go. Hope this make sense! Maybe try doing the metta after the tapping rather than before or at a different time. (Also the guy on the video I interviewed does sessions with people on their phobias to get rid of them, I can give you his details if you want - I have personally been to him and found he got great results with me. I found it fast tracked things for me, and I took longer on my own.)

[Anne Raeburn]

Thank you Rachel.

I am doing my very best Rachel, trying to send metta to people I love or admire. Hopefully I will improve as time goes on, though as mentioned, this is something I have never found easy, whereas I have some really peaceful and happy times using the breath or a mantra. I think I will have to work hard to achieve this.

Rating my level of emotion on a 1-10 scale when thinking of the dreaded hairy spider and then performing a series of tapping, I think is a help, but at the moment I wouldn't rate myself at much less than a 4, which is a great improvement on the first couple of times I tried. It is a relief that it is not necessary to visualise!

[Melissa Hayes]

When I was young, I would go hunting with my father. He taught me to never kill for sport and only take what we absolutely needed. I find the comercial waste and excess of this throw away society dificult to mentaly reconcile. Being connected by heart/feeling, i think, makes you pause and reflect on your own contribution...

[Simon van Veen]

Me again
It is wrong to cause the death of any being. But....
One might easily blame the farmer which in the process of growing his crop (which is his main intention) kills some little insects (the collateral victims). But in the same time, one might be much more easy on the consumer who buys meat to eat (his main intention) and causing the death of a cow (the collateral victim).
I don't know much about Vinaya, but I do know that killing a men is a much serious offense then killing other lifeforms. We could ask ourselves why did the Buddha made such a distinction? Isn't that the more complex the organism is, the more potential for pleasure and pain, for good and for bad is? Some animals are very close to human condition. Look at our pets. They can almost understand what we are talking to them. The amount of self-awareness grows with the complexity of lifeforms.
And another aspect that might had been the source of the above mentioned distinction. How much ill-will you need to kill a fly and how much to kill a horse or a human. What is the effect of this different killings in our mind...?
Any other ideas?

May all beings abide in friendliness.

Of all lifeforms human is the one in which one has the opportunity to study Buddhism. That's why it's such a precious lifeform. A cat, dog or cow can be able to feel and understand certain things, but it cannot reflect on itself in the way a human can. I think that's why it is so bad to kill a human. It's not so much the potential for pleasure and pain, but the potential for the dharma.

[Rachel Green]

Insofar as the fruit flies and farmers go... Would it not be greed on their part in wanting such an abundance of crops to sell? They want it to be someone else's responsibility to fill their pockets by taking care of their problem.

They grow food so that we have something to eat.

[Ciprian Salagean]

Me again
It is wrong to cause the death of any being. But....
One might easily blame the farmer which in the process of growing his crop (which is his main intention) kills some little insects (the collateral victims). But in the same time, one might be much more easy on the consumer who buys meat to eat (his main intention) and causing the death of a cow (the collateral victim).
I don't know much about Vinaya, but I do know that killing a men is a much serious offense then killing other lifeforms. We could ask ourselves why did the Buddha made such a distinction? Isn't that the more complex the organism is, the more potential for pleasure and pain, for good and for bad is? Some animals are very close to human condition. Look at our pets. They can almost understand what we are talking to them. The amount of self-awareness grows with the complexity of lifeforms.
And another aspect that might had been the source of the above mentioned distinction. How much ill-will you need to kill a fly and how much to kill a horse or a human. What is the effect of this different killings in our mind...?
Any other ideas?

May all beings abide in friendliness.

[Jerrod Lopes]

Thank you Ciprian. You are a good friend and a wise man. You are right that supply and demand go hand in hand. I have been vegetarian in the past, but really for health reasons. And buying meat does not protect animals. This I also cannot argue. I understood what you meant about the samanas. I actually like the idea of living a natural life. Humans did not develop, evolve, or be created to live the way that we do. I think it is reasonable that a human would be quite happy and healthy to live as a natural human would. I only wish I had the courage to do it. I'll watch the video you linked. Thanks for the post. I always wish you well my friend. There are many days that would not have been so happy with you to talk with and learn from.

Best regards,

Jerrod

[Ciprian Salagean]

Well, Jerrod, what I meant was that it is hard to live a harmless life unless you are a samana. This, in my understanding, is the closest one might get to a blameless life. In respect to eating this is because you simply have no control over what you eat. You don't have the chance to choose. You can refuse it in some circumstances, but you can't say I want meat or vegetables. I quit eating meat 2 years ago, although I am aware that this is not necessary harmless. I can't and I won't try to impose to anybody to adopt a vegetarian diet. It is more important to have a good heart, then a healthy diet. Sometimes I found myself being infatuated with my morality: "Look at me, I am a vegetarian, I am keeping precepts" - well not in this obvious way, but in a subtler one... I should be moral and humble. It is easy to get a little more ascetic and become infatuated with it (I am going a little of-topic)
We can't deny the interdependence between the demand and supply of meat. This is my personal reason of not eating meat. I feel much closer to animals since I eat in this way. I don't think that buying meat means breaking the first precepts, but it doesn't neither mean that one is protecting the well-being of the animals.
If you haven't view this video yet, maybe you should http://www.meat.org/. It will give you more reasons to give up meat eating.
Also there are, I believe, ecological arguments for not eating meat. I guess it goes something like this: the more complex the proteins we consume are, the more resources we use to "produce" them. I use to spend my holidays, as a child, in a rural area and I know how much corn you have to grow to feed a pig and how much less you need to feed a human. So it is environmental friendly to live on more simple food. And I believe it is possible to live a perfectly healthy life.

Best wishes to all, dear friends!
Ciprian

[Jerrod Lopes]

Insofar as the fruit flies and farmers go... Would it not be greed on their part in wanting such an abundance of crops to sell? They want it to be someone else's responsibility to fill their pockets by taking care of their problem. This is their kamma. If they choose to grow produce as a means to a living, then they must accept all of the inconveniences along with the rewards. I do not wish them any ill-will, yet it is their problem. It could easily be solved if they were to do something else for a living. But as Ciprian and Bo say, it is impossible to live in this world without doing harm. We should not trade our delusions of self and such for those of Utopia. This is samsara and will remain long after we are gone. The whole idea is to live a noble life of virtue. One need not be an activist for every issue in the world to do so. But to be mindful and conscious of one's intentions is the way.

Ciprian, you say that to live life like a samana is impossible. Is it truly impossible? I have thought about it. It may not be easy and is certainly something we are unaccustomed to, but impossible is a very strong word. But even the most mindful and ascetic of all samanas would surely kill or bring or harm, albeit unintentionally. One must also contemplate that this is kamma belonging to that insect when he is inadvertantly eaten in a piece of fruit or in some yogurt. It is natural order. In this world, everything must eat. We needn't eat meat to survive. I used to hunt and haven't for well over 20 years. But as long as someone puts meat in the grocery store for sale, I would rather eat it and see it used than have the animal's life it came from go completely to waste. It was that chicken's or cow's kamma, for now, to become dinner. I will not violate the first precept in allowing an animal to be killed specifically for my use or consumption. It happens often when people go out for a lobster or crab dinner. I have curbed my ideas on meat consumption in hopes to lessen demand a bit and for my own health. It will take a whole town though to refrain from meat to make a large impact. We musn't burden ourselves with the idea that we have to make everyone see the dhamma to any extent like us. It is their good kamma wippakka that they come to the dhamma in their own time. If we can help, wonderful, sadhu! But to try and force enlightenment on the world is improbable at best. The Buddha didn't do it, so we shouldn't be so bold as to try and out-do him. It's all about intention and living a virtuous and noble life. A path which it seems, everyone here is on. Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!

With respect and love,

Jerrod : )

[Rachel Green]

Hi Anne, Please be far kinder to yourself, being able to send metta to something you are frightened of is not something to happen over night. You might need to first strengthen your ability to be able to send metta to someone or something you find it easy to send metta to! Ahjan Nyanadhammo used to stress that the quality of the metta was important. It took me 18 months of daily practice to finally be able to reliably and consistently send loving-kindness to someone whom I held a grievance against! There is certainly no need to visualise.

One tip for tapping, in case it helps, focus on the actual emotion you feel when you think of or see a hairy spider and tap on that. At the start rate the level of emotion on a 1-10 scale (10 worst) and then do a series of tappings. Then re-rate how you feel. In many cases this number drops. Then if it hasn't dropped to a one do another round or two and see if it does drop any lower. I have seen people have very large drops in one session of tapping, (can't explain why but it certainly happens.) Hope this helps you too - you sound to be doing well with it. Fascinating isn't it?

[Anne Raeburn]

During my meditation session last night I tried visualizing one of the spiders I have problems with, and sending it loving kindness. Unfortunately I found myself tensing up and could not relax into the meditation. At the best of times I do not find metta meditation easy at all, and almost always use the breath or a mantra. I am going to have to work on this and will not give up. Perhaps the technique would be more successful if I didn't use any visualization. Tonight I will try sending loving kindness to the world's spiders without visualization and see how that goes.

I am enjoying the tapping. By closing my eyes while I do this, it is almost a meditation in itself. The point just under the knob of my collar bone is particularly good for me. I can feel the energy and good vibes flowing into my body as I go through the sequence and will certainly be using this for all sorts of situations from now on.

[Bo Schafers]

I think it is impossible to live without absolutely being responsible for other creature's death.

Fully agree. Please note that what follows are my personal (and possibly flawed) views and that they do not align with the traditional teachings...

The only way I can actually reconcile this precept for myself is by thinking of the cultural and historical conditions under which it was formulated. In my view the precept is more about living as harmlessly as is reasonably possible and to be very mindful of the intent of one's actions.

What about the bacterias and viruses that we kill intentionally when we take antibiotics?

Or when we slurp them down with a moan of pleasure in our morning yogurt, savour them heedlessly in our sauerkraut/kimchi or in that piece of Stilton

Then -since we're worried about micro-organisms- please all have a look at our roof timber or that lovely Ikea kitchen benchtop we might have inststalled: these items are the dried-out, murdered corpses of some magnificent forest beings!!

I heard there is a story in a sutta when a bhikkhu, after attaining a higher kind of vision refused to eat

Indeed, because even vegetarianism is certainly not harmless. Let's look at a classical vego dish, Ratatouille: the plump eggplant, the juicy tomatoes, the slightly crunchy zuccini. What about sipping some mint tea. Delicious and peaceful, yes? ----NO - all of these are complex beings, which were very much alive before we took them from our organic vegetable patches and brutally killed them for our comfort and pleasure.

The question begs the answer, which is more harmless: consuming carrot juice or Steak Tartar?

[Anne Raeburn]

Thank you so much Rachel, for all your good advice. I absolutely agree, the fear is in my mind and I will certainly make an effort to send loving kindness to all spiders and attempt to think of them more as individuals. I have seen quite beautiful spiders in Bali and try to look at them with different eyes. One lovely big black spider, with magnificant yellow stripes was in the middle of his web outside our hotel room once. I even climbed up and took a photo of him and there was no fear, but I knew he was not going to jump out of his web and he was beautiful enough to be admired. This did not mean I would have liked him on me mind you Also, he was outside, that helped. Perhaps if I focus on that particular spider when sending loving kindness, as well as the huntsmen I fear, that might help?

I viewed the YouTube video, and found it fascinating. Interestingly, a few weeks ago Shirley, who goes to our Armadale Group was telling me about the tapping method, which I had never heard of before, and kindly lent me an interesting book on the subject. The video is so easy to follow that I am going to give it a go. Sounds marvellous. It would be absolutely fantastic to get rid of this fear of spiders that I have lived with all my life (not redbacks, that can give you a nasty bite, only the big hairy ones!)

With metta and much appreciation.

[Ciprian Salagean]

I think it is impossible to live without absolutely being responsible for other creature's death. We may become vegetarians, grow some vegetables in our own garden without using pesticides, but the production of most of what we eat (or use in other ways) has caused the death of millions of insects. I often think about what a blessing would be to able to renounce all and live out in nature, without storing food, just pick up some fruits, without harming any beings. Of course this is a highly idealized version. The reality is, I guess, such a thing is impossible. After all it is samsara. The purest livelihood is that of a samana. Regarding eating just eat what you receive without preferences, treating it like gasoline for the car. But as long as we can't live like a samana, we are at least partially responsible for the animals killed in the productions of our food. We didn't killed them personally, but some one did it because we demanded the product. If in one town anybody would renounce to eat meat for example, the slaughterhouse would be closed.
So if our livelihood is to produce vegetables or grains, not for our family, but for a whole town, could we do our job picking up every insect, snail or other pests? Is this a wrong livelihood? I think not. After all kamma is action driven by intention. A butcher's intention is to kill the animal. A farmer's intention is to grow grains not to kill pests.
There also is another aspect that we must consider. If we don't kill that insect, it will fly away, maybe to our non-Buddhist neighbors, there it will spawn and our neighbor will have to kill many insects, not just one.
We should avoid as much us possible killing. But at least in the case of pests, we should be more careful.
Last time when seriously broke this precept it was with a moth invasion. For maybe an year I took them outside one by one with a glass and a paper. But then I couldn't keep up with their spawn rate. So eventually I had to spray them. twice And surely most of the moths that I liberated in this way, invaded the apartments nearby causing trouble to my neighbors.
If I would have acted properly from the start I wouldn't got to this genocide.
In agriculture, if pests are not kept under control, they can produce catastrophic consequences, even famine.
What about the bacterias and viruses that we kill intentionally when we take antibiotics? they are also life-forms... I heard there is a story in a sutta when a bhikkhu, after attaining a higher kind of vision refused to eat, and drink because he sow that there are very tiny beings that he might kill. I don't remember the exact response of the Buddha (I didn't read the sutta myself), but I guess he didn't advice the bhikkhu to continue starve himself to death.
In keeping the precepts we might want to think about how our practice affect other people, and be realistic about the possibilities of samsara.

May our practice bear good fruits to ourselves and to the rest of the worlds.
(I became a little Mahayanist in this post. Not that this would be a bad thing )