Sutta - Five Daily Recollections | Ajahn Nissarano

[Steve Russell]

I thought this was one of the best dhamma talks I have seen in a long time. I think a tremendous amount of suffering could be reduced in the West if this practice will be embraced as much as mindfulness.

I do have some questions.

1. What citations can I look The Five Daily Recollections up in the Samyutta Nikaya by?

2. What is the other sutta that Ajahn Nissarano is using to supplement his talk?

3. Ajahn Nissarano said that the point of the contemplation is NOT to make yourself depressed or anxious. I have to be honest, I tried it daily for several weeks and that is exactly what happened. How can one do this practice and NOT get depressed or anxious. How is that avoided?

4. Ajahn Nissaranao kept reading this verse:

...The thought occurred to me: "When an untaught, run-of-the-mill person, himself subject to aging, not beyond aging, sees another who is aged, he is horrified, humiliated, & disgusted, oblivious to himself that he too is subject to aging, not beyond aging. If I – who am subject to aging, not beyond aging – were to be horrified, humiliated, & disgusted on seeing another person who is aged, that would not be fitting for me." As I noticed this, the [typical] young person's intoxication with youth entirely dropped away.

I'm not sure I understand the passage in bold. I can understand a person being disgusted or horrified upon seeing an old/sick/dead person, but I don't understand why a person who isn't those things would be humiliated by seeing those things in another?

There there is this sub quote to the one above

that would not be fitting for me[/B]." As I noticed this, the [typical] young person's intoxication with youth entirely dropped away.

Does that mean that a person, feeling disturbed by looking at a an old/sick/dead person has the insight that their reaction of disgust to those things will bring them misery in the future when they reach that point in their lives? Does the last part of it mean that by contemplating these realities the attachment for youth/health/life will loosen up in seeing that those things will go away?

Thanks!

[Bhikkhu Sunyo]

Hi Steve,

Unfortunately for you, Ajahn Nissarano has just left Bodhinyana, so I can't relay your questions. However, I'll answer them next week hopefully (haven't got the time now) to the best of my abilities!

For now I'll just make this topic public so other people can respond as well.


With kindness,
Sunyo

[Shivam Diwan]

Dear venerable and friends,

Ajahn seems so humble, and of course his talks are highly inspiring. Actually, I'm heading to Srilanka this weekend, do any here knows Ajahn's whereabouts there?
I'll be glad to pay respect and meet him in person.

Mettā,
Shivam

[Rudite Salina]

Hi Steve,

The sutta Ajahn Nissarano was reading is from the Anguttara Nikāya, the number of the sutta is AN 5:57.
The other two suttas Ajahn mentioned are also from the same collection: AN 3:39 and AN 10:60.

You can read these suttas on SuttaCentral:
AN 5:57 Themes
AN 3.39 Delicate
AN 10:60 Girimānanda

With metta,
Rudite

[Franz Li]

AN 5-57 Themes; AN 3-39 Delicate; AN 10-60 Girimānanda

The suttas discussed in this talk are
AN 5-57 Themes;
AN 3-39 Delicate;
AN 10-60 Girimānanda.

[Bhikkhu Sunyo]

Dear venerable and friends,

Ajahn seems so humble, and of course his talks are highly inspiring. Actually, I'm heading to Srilanka this weekend, do any here knows Ajahn's whereabouts there?
I'll be glad to pay respect and meet him in person.

Mettā,
Shivam

I asked around and it seems he is not in Sri Lanka yet.

(I will respond to the question later)

[Amitabha Elliott]

The reason we become anxious and depressed is because we are attached to body as mine, "i am" as mine, mind as mine, feeling as mine, consciousness as mine, perception as mine. When we still believe we are the body or feeling, these things can happen as a result of these kind of reflections. I think it's helpful to see the aggregates arising and address them so we can be released. For example, when a thought arises, say, "Mental formations are not self". There is great liberation and lightness that can occur when we address them as they are. "Ahhh....I forgot, mental formations are not self" is the feeling and there is great relief. If we take on these more advanced contemplations without addressing Right View, we can be causing an identity crisis, when what we really need to do is let identification go. If we're not ready, we will cause more suffering.

[Franz Li]

AN 5-57 versus SN 12-17 How does Kamma work for an individual sentient being?

The often quoted passage from AN5-57 Themes is:
"... ‘I am the owner of my kamma, the heir of my kamma; I have kamma as my origin, kamma as my relative, kamma as my resort; I will be the heir of whatever kamma, good or bad, that I do.’..."

This is another way of saying "you reap what you sow", therefore you better pay attention to "moral dread", one of the 7-wealths (e.g. AN-7-5)
i.e. you create your own suffering.

However, in another famous sutta, there seems to be a somewhat contradictory exchange: (SN 12-17)

“How is it, Master Gotama: is suffering created by oneself?” “Not so, Kassapa,” the Blessed One said.
“Then, Master Gotama, is suffering created by another?” “Not so, Kassapa,” the Blessed One said.
“How is it then, Master Gotama: is suffering created both by oneself and by another?” “Not so, Kassapa,” the Blessed One said.
“Then, Master Gotama, has suffering arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another?” “Not so, Kassapa,” the Blessed One said.
“How is it then, Master Gotama: is there no suffering?” “It is not that there is no suffering, Kassapa; there is suffering.”
“Then is it that Master Gotama does not know and see suffering?” “It is not that I do not know and see suffering, Kassapa. I know suffering, I see suffering.”

What is the best way to explain this apparent contradiction? Is it a matter of mundane Right View versus Supramundane Right View?

[Bhikkhu Sunyo]

I finally get around to answering the actual questions. Sorry, I've been away for a while.

I thought this was one of the best dhamma talks I have seen in a long time. I think a tremendous amount of suffering could be reduced in the West if this practice will be embraced as much as mindfulness.

I do have some questions.

1. What citations can I look The Five Daily Recollections up in the Samyutta Nikaya by?

2. What is the other sutta that Ajahn Nissarano is using to supplement his talk?

I believe these have been answered by others already.

3. Ajahn Nissarano said that the point of the contemplation is NOT to make yourself depressed or anxious. I have to be honest, I tried it daily for several weeks and that is exactly what happened. How can one do this practice and NOT get depressed or anxious. How is that avoided?

Some reflections, especially the reflection on death, can cause some emotional responses in the beginning. It's only natural! That way you can see that there actually is some attachment or fear still in you. You can then ask yourself: What am I afraid off? What do I get sad about? Do you fear to die because you have not been very virtuous or are you afraid of the unknown? Questions such as this can help you to learn more about yourself. Such reflections work best when your mind is already quite calm from some meditation.
[/quote]

4. Ajahn Nissaranao kept reading this verse:


I'm not sure I understand the passage in bold. I can understand a person being disgusted or horrified upon seeing an old/sick/dead person, but I don't understand why a person who isn't those things would be humiliated by seeing those things in another?

I am not sure if humiliated is the best translation. I think 'ashamed' may be slightly better. As I understand it, it means being ashamed of doing the 'unenlightened' act of having been born, and so having to die. Admittedly, it is a bit weird in this context. So it may also be that the Pali word for 'humiliated' has a broader meaning than the English equivalents. To be honest, I've been wondering about that but never really looked into it. I might do that later, and if I find something, I'll get back to you.

There there is this sub quote to the one above

Does that mean that a person, feeling disturbed by looking at a an old/sick/dead person has the insight that their reaction of disgust to those things will bring them misery in the future when they reach that point in their lives? Does the last part of it mean that by contemplating these realities the attachment for youth/health/life will loosen up in seeing that those things will go away?

Thanks!

I think it's mainly talking about the latter. If you know that you will get old, you won't get that attached to youth. You won't have the feeling that you'll live forever and have all the time in the world. Also, reflecting on the fact that others will get old and die lessens your attachments to them, or to their beauty and health.


But just to finish off, I'd like to say this:

All these sort of attachments go really deep and these reflections therefore have many levels to them. It's sometimes hard to say what level the Buddha was pointing at exactly. Often he seems to be covering many levels at once. Therefore one quote out of the suttas can mean different things to different people. It's not so much a matter of intellectually trying to see what the Buddha said, but it's more about feeling what his words mean to you at that point in time. I have been coming back to certain suttas over the years, and each time I read them slightly differently because I've grown on my path and other things are important to me.

I hope this helps Russell!

With metta,
Sunyo